Monday, April 12, 2010

Where does it say that in Halacha?

For yet another time I am re-posting the quote below.

The context (this time) is a statement on one of the blogs that a solution to the “shidduch crisis” is to pull down mechitza — figuratively and literally, except in the cases explicitly mandated by Halacha (i.e., davening). The author of the opinion says, for example, that mehadrin buses in Eretz Yisroel which separate men and women are counter-productive to healthy opportunities for young singles to meet. To my surprised response: “Do you want the singles to meet on a bus?”, the author responded along the lines of: “What’s the problem?” (Note that I am not endorsing the mehadrin buses themselves or the behavior of chareidim on them. That’s a separate issue.)

To me, the answer (of what the problem is) is rather clear from multiple perspectives. I consulted with my rabbis to make sure I am not nuts, and they confirmed that at least in this issue I seem to be within boundaries of reason. I.e., that it is certainly an authentic value in Judaism that tznius goes beyond a skirt length, and that separation between genders goes beyond davening. There are very clear reasons for this that are, moreover, very rational.

My point right now is not to discuss the issue of tznius and solutions to shidduch crisis. I wanted to express my opinion that stripping Judaism to the bare bones of Halacha is, in and of itself, past nisht. (More on the topic here.) Now the excerpt from the post on Circus Tent:
Today in the US we have a whole range of people under 60, American born, whose knowledge of Judaism is based exclusively on books, and those books are the Shulchan Aruch and Gemora. Most of these people had parents who I am sure were fine people but left behind the emotional attachment to echte Yiddishkayt in Europe. Here they belonged to Young Israel synagogues and became very acculturated and lost that special hergesh. In America, Judaism was reduced to learning and doing mitzvos by rote. These people include most MO Jews, the so-called Yeshiva community, and even some “Amerikane Chasidim”.

On the other side we have people whose view of Judaism was shaped by seeing how their parents acted, felt, laughed, cried, talked and walked. These people tended to have a genuine Mesorah. They saw Judaism as more than just book learning, and the book learning included Midrash, Chassidus, Sifrei Mussar, vechulu. This people tend to be Chassidic and a few Misnagdim who come from European homes. And in the background of all of this loomed the Holocaust, not Coney Island! To the first category Rabbonim are “machinove”, automated people who act in a mathematical way, and have no emotions.
The second category knows that Judaism is more than the dry letter of the law.
Even though it is not the main topic of my post, my rabbi points out that the so-called “shidduch crisis” seems to be affecting the groups listed in the first, not the second paragraph (the ones whose mechitza is barely there as it is).

Update: the point of my quoting the above passage is not to compare the two types of communities, but to compare the two approaches to Torah.

22 comments:

Dovid said...

PC- I think its time you drop the psuedo from your name and go back to being CA. CA- Chossid Authentica

Anarchist Chossid said...

In order to be an authentic chossid, one needs to give the keys to one’s brain to one’s rebbe. I can’t do that. Not because I don’t think it’s the right thing to do (aderabe), but because I am not there yet.

Just like a guy said...

I beg to differ- there is just as much a shidduch crisis among the second group as among the first.

2. Hershel Tzig loves to romanticize- whether what he says is true or not is up for debate.

Anarchist Chossid said...

1. There is as much shidduch crisis amongst chassidim as amongst MO and Yeshivish?

2. He wasn’t the one who said that. It was one of his faithful readers.

Just like a guy said...

1. Yes.

2. Ahh. Still, I can easily imagine him saying such a thing.

Anarchist Chossid said...

̀1. Lubavitchers or Chagas? I was under impretion that both find mates with no significant problem.

2. Indeed.

Just like a guy said...

1. Both, though in the case of Chabad, it is females who have the problem, while in the case of Chagas, many males have the issue.

In general, you must have had your head in the sand if you think that there is no crisis amongst us.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Of course there is crisis in Chabad. But lav davka shidduch crisis.

Anyway, Chabad is not a paragon of tznius on any level either.

But even if it’s true, where is the shidduch crisis worse? Anyway, I don’t find the topic so interesting myself, since I think the whole thing is blown out of proportions and made up a bit.

Just like a guy said...

Davka lav, there is a great shidduch crisis in Lubavitch.

R"L, even if true.

Where is it worse? Ich vais nisht.

Anarchist Chossid said...

I wanna see some statistics at which I could scoff.

According to some, the cause of all problems in Lubavitch is the fact that the girls are being taught limmudei chol in schools.

A true chossid always believes that it is always worse by “them”.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Anyway, my rabbi is not the first person to say that. I’ve seen it said by the yeshivish people themselves.

Just like a guy said...

There are two types of lies...

(snort)

Really?

To say what?

Anarchist Chossid said...

impression*

Just like a guy said...

huh?

Anarchist Chossid said...

Which are?

You disagree? Chassidishe meidelach being taught about Martin Luther King and age of the world? (I wrote at first “Martin Luther King and Evolution”, but some may misinterpret what I mean to say.) Metumteming their moach and lev? First, a girl learns matrices in her Algebra class. Next thing you know, she is wearing a denim skirt, r"l.

No?

About shidduch crisis being worse there than here.

Just like a guy said...

Lies and statistics.

Denim skirts. Horrors.

You tell me.

You got that impression?

Dovid said...

In order to be an authentic chossid, one needs to think it's the right thing to do to give the keys to one’s brain to one’s rebbe.

Anarchist Chossid said...

And to be a mountain climber, one needs to think that mountain climbing is a grand thing to do?

Dovid said...

Yes

Dovid said...

Just because we have yet to reach the mountain top we are not mountain climbers?

e said...

I was gonna say that that quote from tzig reminded me why I never read that blog. It's not that what he's writing is so objectionable. It's that he writes it in a horrifically distasteful (to me) way.

But then I saw that it's from a commenter. I'm still not gonna read that blog.

Anarchist Chossid said...

e, for the most part I have the same feelings. But I like this quote, because it mirrors my own observations.