Recently I had the following exchange with the esteemed TRS:
TRS: If only JC had lived in Moscow, everything would be different... [Don’t ask what brought this on.]So, basically, TRS is saying that had there not been Yoshka there would still be Moscow, to which I answer that if you look at the way history happened, lav davka.
Me: Actually, it would be impossible for Yoshka to be born in Moscow, because Moscow exists thanks to Yoshka.
TRS: Moscow exists because of JC? Actually, Moscow exists because of G-d. Unless you're saying that the two are one?
Me: Moscow doesn’t exist “because” of G-d. “Because” implies causal relationship — ilah v’alul. G-d and the Universe don’t have causal relationship. Hashem creates the Universe yesh m’ayin. Saying that something is “because” of something else implies that within realms of the reality, that something else was the ilah of this phenomenon’s metzius.
As it happened, Russia became a unified political power in the Middle Ages only thanks to influence of Byzantine Empire, which happened through the vehicle of X-ity (both as an attractant, such as in the case of Russian princess Olga visiting the cathedral in Constantinople, and as a medium of influence). Without X-ity and Byzantine culture, Kiev Rus would not be what it had become. Without that, Novgorod and Moscow would never rise to their political influence during the Mongol occupation, and Moscow would never become a large political center after expulsion of Mongols.
TRS: Enough semantics, you know what I mean.
So, basically, there was a Moscow, it just wasn't the Moscow we all know and love.
Me: You can’t deny causal relationship between events just because Eibeshter is the sole source of all existence. It’s one of the primary principles of Torah (called “Torah”).
Lav davka. Most likely Moscow appeared because of increase in civilization in Russia resulting in emergence of new towns.
Why did I just make you read this foolish exchange? Because although on the surface it seems that I am right, it may actually be the case that a bear died in a fores... I mean, that TRS is right.
In order to illustrate this idea, let’s read the following abstract from a paper by Dr. Eve Marder, a local neuroscientist:
Most neurons have large numbers of voltage- and time-dependent currents that contribute to their electrical firing patterns. Because these currents are nonlinear, it can be difficult to determine the role each current plays in determining how a neuron fires.So, what does this say? A particular neuron needs, in order to play its specific role in the network, to have a specific behavior. In order to achieve this behavior, it needs to have a number of different electrical conductances, in the right combination. In order to have those, it needs to produce a number of ion channels, in the right amounts and again, in the right combination. In order to do that, it needs to transcribe a number of genes, all in the right amount and the right combination.
The lateral pyloric (LP) neuron of the stomatogastric ganglion of decapod crustaceans has been studied extensively biophysically. We constructed ~600,000 versions of a four-compartment model of the LP neuron and distributed 11 different currents into the compartments. From these, we selected ~1300 models that match well the electrophysiological properties of the biological neuron.
Interestingly, correlations that were seen in the expression of channel mRNA in biological studies were not found across the ~1300 admissible LP neuron models, suggesting that the electrical phenotype does not require these correlations. We used cubic fits of the function from maximal conductances to a series of electrophysiological properties to ask which conductances predominantly influence input conductance, resting membrane potential, resting spike rate, phasing of activity in response to rhythmic inhibition, and several other properties.
In all cases, multiple conductances contribute to the measured property, and the combinations of currents that strongly influence each property differ. These methods can be used to understand how multiple currents in any candidate neuron interact to determine the cell's electrophysiological behavior.
The thing is: in order to achieve a particular behavior, a neuron can follow a large number of paths, in terms of expressing genes, making ion channels and having different ion conductances. More than one (by large) combination of all these pieces of the puzzle produces the same emergent picture. And it is likely that each neuron does its own thing with turning on genes, etc., etc., but in the end, it produces the right behavior, expected from it by the party... I mean, by the network.
Now, the question of how this is regulated on all levels (and how are we to make sense of it all) boggles one’s mind. But that’s not my point right now.
My point is: der Eibershter wants (evidently) there to be a Moscow. Excuse me: not just “a” Moscow, but the Moscow, the one we have nowadays. In order for Moscow to exist, we know from history, Yoshka, and Byzantine Empire, and Mongols (and a large number of other causal links) had to exist. So, sure, if even one of those links went missing, our golden Moscow of today would be a different Moscow (or not exist altogether), right?
Maybe not. Maybe, just like the abovementioned neuron, lehavdil, der Eibershter has many paths from one node of the world’s history to another. And if He wants something to happen, it will happen, no matter what. Just a different combination of genes and ion channels will be used.
For sure we know this is true regarding Moshiach. He is coming. No matter what stupid decision anyone makes, no matter how much nigleh one learns without nistar (r"l), Moshiach is coming. There may be multiple ways for him to get here, but it’s gonna happen.
I am wondering whether it’s the case about every single other thing. Or almost every single other thing. Or some other things...
See also this post.
23 comments:
Did I ever respond to that thread? I definitely meant to, but it's very possible that I simply forgot to. Anyway, I accept your bow of defeat with grace and dignity.
It's not "eibersheter." It's "the eibershter."
ponder that after you finish eating the onion.
TRS: are you saying I imagined the whole conversation? I wouldn’t put it past myself...
e: happy now?
Huh? I never said that.
Why must you never mean l’hatchilo what I interpret you to have said?
Because I want to give you schar limud.
IOW, the butterfly effect is nonsense, and individuals causative elements have zero effect on a complex adaptive system. (except, of course, greenhouse gas emissions on global climate)
So, what does that say about the meaningfulness of individual lives: Is the Rambam's image of a balanced scale that is tipped by a single action just a rhetorical device?
I think the answer is that we have to realize that there are two pov’s: ours and Eibershter’s. Ours is that what we do has an effect. Ergo, bechira. Ergo, responsibility to do mitzvos. Eibershter’s is that whatever He wants to happen will happen. Like in that story with the tzaddik and the breakfast (maybe I should post it).
I don’t know if I’d agree that what I am saying means that butterfly effect is nonsense. In general, I try to avoid saying that any klal in chochmas chitzoinius is nonsense because of some klal in Torah. Perhaps my baggage is to blame.
(Obviously, saying the opposite regarding the klalim is even less possible.)
Who says the butterfly is a real klal? Methinks it's nonsense even without considering torah's klalim.
Are you enjoying eating the onion?
If there is only one, should I really say “the”? I mean, by definition of being above all (Всевышний)?
I don’t know if it’s a real klal or not. To me it looks like a misrepresentation of chaos theory, but this kind of thing hasn’t been on my mind lately.
From what I've read, the Rebbe definitely held of chaos theory, and I believe he used the example of a butterfly. Bichlal, why wouldn't you hold of it?
TRS: Are you asking me or Eliezer? Where did the Rebbe hold of chaos theory/butterfly effect?
I'm not asking, I'm telling.
B. Look in Mind over matter.
You’re telling with a question mark?
I hate that book. It’s would be the biggest chillul Chabad, if most people were intelligent enough to understand why.
I was being humble.
Love it or hate it, you disagree with the letters?
I don’t know if I’d agree that what I am saying means that butterfly effect is nonsense. In general, I try to avoid saying that any klal in chochmas chitzoinius is nonsense because of some klal in Torah.
I thought we were talking about a dubious analogy in one Chochma Chitzoni (your neuroscience lecture, rife with analogies to 1940's era Soviet propaganda) demonstrating that a Klal in another Chochma Chitzoini (the butterfly effect) is nonsense, Yiddishkeit was just along for the ride.
The only way Mind over Matter could be more distasteful to Crawling Axe would be if Tzvi Freeman had written the prologue, and Yanky Tauber was cited in the footnotes.
You mean the post above?
Yiddishkeit is never for a ride. All my narishkeit is l’shem shomayim.
Add Arnie Godfried to the list.
Dr. Gotfried (who, BTW, has one more PhD than you do) is the editor of "Mind over Matter".
CA: I knew there was a reason that i hated it!
Don't apply your Russian logic to Yiddish grammar. Der Aibershter = the [one who is] above all.
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