Monday, February 15, 2010

Demanding a timeless answer, or Tradition, tradition! (part 4)



In the famous sicho about Purim, the Rebbe asks the famous question: why is the name of G-d not mentioned in the whole of Megillas Ester? He gives an answer (brought down in our tradition) immediately: because Mordechai did not want non-Jews who would translate Megillas Ester in their languages to replace the name of G-d with, lehavdil, names of their deities.

The Rebbe, however, is not satisfied with the answer. He says: this might have been a good reason back in the day, but nowadays it’s not. We, however, have the same Megillas Ester. And it is eternal — both in its message and in minute details. Therefore, there must be a reason applicable even to us today that G-d’s name is not mentioned.

If you want to know the reason, you can learn the sicho in Yiddish or Loshon Koidesh (from what I remember, the reason was that during Purim, G-d’s Essence — which cannot be described by any name — was the main actor) or listen to it here. But what’s interesting to me is that the Rebbe is not satisfied with an answer: “Well, there were circumstances back in the day, which led to this state of affairs, and today we inherited the results, even though the reason for their appearance may not be applicable anymore. We should keep the results out of respect for the tradition.”

He is not satisfied just like all the “modernizers” of Judaism are not satisfied, but his approach is not to shed or “update” these customs, whose superficial reason may lie in the past, but to find and explain the deeper reason for their existence throughout the ages and, especially, today.

See a post I wrote a while ago: “Spiritual timelessness of Judaism” (it’s about Kislev, not Adar, but the message is applicable to the topic of this post). My main point there is that historical circumstances of Jewish customs’ or laws’ appearance are merely vessels which drew down the essence of the customs and the laws: the spiritual energy that is associated with them that allows us to connect (ourselves and the world) to Hashem through them.

Also, see part 2 of the “Tradition, tradition!” series.

[source of the image]

45 comments:

Just like a guy said...

And once again I am privileged to ask, "Now what"?

Anarchist Chossid said...

Our differences in education can be seen readily.

Yeshiva education always has a bottom line — a psak din, an avoida lesson. Even if it’s pure haskala, it is still with a practical purpose.

College education, while oftentimes having practical application, is generally speaking geared toward appreciation of an idea for its own sake.

(I am not criticizing one or another, just merely observing the difference.)

Just like a guy said...

I suppose.

Michael said...

I think that this is one of the hardest ideas in the Rebbe's Torah to get your head around.
The Rebbe holds that everything, every sevora, argument, custom, etc, is timeless, because it is brought in Torah - and the Rebbe's defintion of Torah is very broad - and Torah is timeless.
I think that the idea stands as a very strong guidepost to Jews in the modern world, but, as an actual system of thought, it is really hard to understand.
For example: In the times of the Gemoro, a borrower had an automatic lien placed on all his real property, so that the creditor could collect from them even after his death, but not on his movables.
The Geonim ordained that the lien should extend to movables as well.
The question of what property is liened is one that touches the Jewish value of proper treatment of a debtor by a creditor, and vice versa. So, what is the timeless Torah practice? the one in force during the times of the Gemoro, or the one ordained by the Geonim.
Another example: In the times of the Mishna, there was a custom during the Pesach Seder to remove the table entirely after Karpas, so that the children would question.
This is a Minhag Yisroel, holy and timeless, and yet, it is not practiced today, because we don't have small tables any more.
Can you imagine the Sichos if the practice of small tables had been around in Russia, and only in America the practice of large tables came into being. "The custom of removing the table is not just because of the circumstances and practices of the past, it is a fundamental part of Pesach, there are deep meanings associated with it, etc. etc."

Anarchist Chossid said...

Re: liens: that’s what Halacha is for, no? To determine what is timeless, i.e., applicable to us today, and what was provincial in chronological terms. (It could be also that both are timeless.)

Re: karpas table: that’s the same thing as saying how come we celebrate Chanukah but not many other holidays that Jews used to celebrate. Because some holidays are “just holidays”, while others have special timeless ruchnius associated with them. And for this, time determines which is which.

I think the important chiddush for the modern Jews (at least it was for me) is that Torah (as specific or as broad as you want to take it) is not just a legal or sociocultural phenomenon, but a spiritual one as well. And primarily so. I think this is what MO Jews, for example, don’t get (from my experience of listening to them), even though they still believe that Torah was given by Hashem.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Furthermore, for me, ruchnius makes many aspects of Judaism much more accessible. For example, why must we not eat chicken with milk? Or not move keilim around on Shabbos? Because of specific societal circumstances that happened once? What if I know that this is a chicken and not beef? Why should I, privately, still refrain from mixing it with milk? (This, incidentally, touched on the idea that morality cannot be utilitarian, since such motivation would never work in private.)

I could, I suppose, say that just like Hashem wanted us to keep Torah He personally gave to Moshe Rabbeinu, He also wanted us to keep the decrees of the rabbis. But this leaves one with a feeling of an accident: since we have no Sanhedrin at the moment, and since Jewish society cannot be ruled one person at a time, each person needs to keep laws d’rabbanim.

For me personally it was a great motivator when I learned in Tanya that there is actual spiritual element of uncleanness associated even with prohibitions d’rabbanim. Whether it was the cause or the effect of the prohibition, it doesn’t matter: the key is that today, as a matter of fact, there is a spiritual problem with doing certain things.

(Of course, another solution is not to think about this, which is probably what the vast majority of frum Jews do.)

Michael said...

I agree with the importance of Ruchnius in the discussion.

Just help me with your mechanism for change.
According to you there are some things in Judaism that are eternal, and others that are not, and the way that we know is we see which ones stand the test of time.
That is great if you are an observer, but how does it guide the actors?

If someone is in a position of influence, how does s/he (:-)) know whether to introduce a change, if it seems right. You can say that those things that are not supposed to change won't change, so I can change anything I want because if it is not supposed to change, the Hashgacha won't let it change.
Or you can say, how can you change anything, maybe this is one of those things that is not supposed to change?

Anarchist Chossid said...

That’s why one needs a Rebbe/rav, I suppose.

This was discussed some time ago by a local shliach, regarding the question of why Jews who wanted to go to Eretz Yisroel without M"R’s blessing were killed. http://crawlingaxe.blogspot.com/2009/06/tradition-tradition.html

If you are asking how to determine yourself which things to leave and which things to change, I don’t know the algorithm. It’s one of the things I think about. In my head, I hear two voices. One says: “Tradition.” The other says: “Look in the context.”

Michael said...

And how does the Rebbe/Rav know?
Because the Rebbe seems to make his determinations, using the tool of Nitzchiyus Hatorah. But, it has been shown in this discussion that Nitzchiyus Hatorah is not dispositive at all.
So, why reference it?

Anarchist Chossid said...

You can say that those things that are not supposed to change won't change, so I can change anything I want because if it is not supposed to change, the Hashgacha won't let it change.

I think this would violate my no-hp-vs-bechira rule.

Anarchist Chossid said...

I don’t know the algorithm according to which the Rebbe found a balance between innovation (and looking at things in context) vs. tradition. Or the way an individual Rav makes a halachic decision. Part of me wishes to know more; part of me wishes I was just a chossid for whom it was enough to be bottul to the Rebbe.

It does seem to me that the Rebbe respected tradition greatly. He even jokingly remarked that even though the custom to read Tehillim on Shabbos Mevorchim hurriedly that has arisen doesn’t seem to be the best way to do it, still, it’s a custom...

But I do think each individual has to use seichel to come up with the best decision possible, not just rely on h"p filtering wrong decisions out.

Just like a guy said...

Ruach Hakodesh.

Just like a guy said...

Or else, nowadays, Siyata Dishmaya.

Anarchist Chossid said...

That’s how the Rebbe/Rav knows?

Just like a guy said...

There's a famous story that a big Rav (I think it was the Maharal) was once asked a shaila by someone, and he got it wrong. The Maharal said, "Is this a practical question or not?". The guy had to admit that it was a test. The Maharal said, "Hah! I knew it. A Rav gets siyata dishmaya when he's answering something that's nogeya l'halacha, but otherwise..."

Anarchist Chossid said...

Nodeh B’Yehuda (but also of Prague — he was auditioning to become the rav of the city). But, he was consciously using some sort of algorithm to make a decision; just in this case he happened to be wrong.

So, your answer is to ask a rav/mashpia and have emunah pshuta?

Just like a guy said...

It wasn't an algorithm- he was paskening from shulchan oruch!

What else are you planning on doing, making a taanis chalom?

Anarchist Chossid said...

Paskening from a Shulchan Aruch is also an algorithm. And in order to pasken correctly, you need an algorithm. Otherwise, no works of Halacha after S"A would be written. Plus, remember the comment by Shriki about S"A in the poetry slam post?

Ta’anis chalom? What for?

Just like a guy said...

Nu, call it an algorithm, point is, Halacha isn't decided like math. If it was there'd be a yes or no for everything, which there obviously isn't.

Tannis chalom= kabbalistic process for receiving answers to questions while you sleep.

Anarchist Chossid said...

This comment.

(Also, why is my name in quotation marks on Shriki’s blogroll? I can imagine that he doesn’t believe my name is really “Crawling Axe” — although, why not? — but Cheerio’s name, for example, is not in quotation marks.)

Anarchist Chossid said...

Not like Math, but there is a system; otherwise, works of Halacha would not be written. On the other hand, I guess there is a reason they say Mishna Brura is not a work of halachic authority.

I thought it was fasting after a bad dream. Is that better or worse than writing into the Igros?

Just like a guy said...

Ahh. I'd like to see what a Lubavitcher Rav would say about that.

Ask Shriki.

Yes, there's a system, but it's not systematic.

Sorry, you are correct, I used the wrong term.

Better or worse than Igros? Anyone who paskens from writing into Igros is a sinner. Anyone who says you can't Pasken from writing into Igros is a fool, though of course the Rebbe was not a Dayan, so maybe not.

Anyway, yes, officially the results of the dream (written on a paper you slipped under your pillow) were written by G-d (or someone like that) so presumably they can be trusted. Though of course the Torah is not in heaven. Hmm.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Me too. Although it’s not so pertinent to me yet.

My point is that although clearly the decisions of a rav are guided by ruach ha’koidesh (to the point that we say that his etzem ha’neshama remembers what the King’s Will is from the moment of unity with Him even before eser sfirois ha’gnuzos were willed into [potential] being), b’gilui he uses seichel anushi — and his experience is likewise.

Is he really a sinner?

Is this really a halachically proper method?

Anyway, yes, it’s a good idea to ask a mashpia, if one has a mashpia to whom he has emunah pshutah. But for that one needs to be a chossid, not a pseudo-chossid/amateur philatelist.

Anarchist Chossid said...

I mean, if he paskens from the Igros — sure, probably.

But what if he is trying to decide whether to, say, teach his daughters Gemara, he can a) ask a mashpia in whom he has emunah pshuta, b) write into the Igros, c) sleep on it (literally) and interpret the dream, d) use his own seichel. (Of course, he can use a mashpia’s opinion and clarification for d), but that’s not the same as “asking a mashpia.)

Just like a guy said...

Nu, it's a mitzva to know kol hatorah kula!

How do you know? Have you ever been a rav?

If he goes against Halacha.

Ahh, it's not a taanis chalom, it's a shaalos chalom. Anyway, yes, the greats did it. I'm not sure if they paskened with it, or just used it to ask questions in learning.

Nu, so I can't help you. Bichlal, all my advice is only good for someone who at least aspires to be a chossid. Someone who is content with not being a chossid, or not even wanting to try to act like a chossid, can't be helped.

You know what you're problem (and Ira's problem too) is? You rely on your own intellect. At least you have a bit of Kabbalos Ol, but... if you had only gone to Yeshiva instead of college you'd be much better off, b'gashmius and b'frat b'ruchnius.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Who said I don’t aspire?

Suddenly you know how to run the world better than Hashem, huh?

What part of my body should I rely on? Perhaps on my enteric system?

Anarchist Chossid said...

Never been a rav, but I know someone who has. Or know someone who knows someone. Fine, I read it in a book. Gutnick Rambam.

Just like a guy said...

Nu, so what are you waiting for?

Sure thing.

You shouldn't rely on your body. You should rely on G-d.

If all we had to do was read it in a book, then we wouldn't need dayanim.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Who said I am waiting?

Since, unlike you, I am neither prophet nor son of a prophet, I have to use my intellect to determine what G-d wants from me and how to accomplish my job in the best way. I agree that there are areas, in which I have to trust. But even to figure out which areas those are, I need my intellect. And in the areas, where it’s up to me, I better do the best job I can. For which, again, I need my intellect.

Agreed. But we trust dayanim, because we read it in the book that we should trust dayanim.

Just like a guy said...

So then what's the answer?

This is what a Rebbe is for.

No, because your "parents" told you to trust.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Not “let it be”?

I don’t know what the Rebbe wants me to do.

Parents?

Just like a guy said...

No.

That's what a mashpia is for.

Mashpiim.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Before I can be bottul to someone, I need to transform myself first and figure out to what degree I can rely on someone vs. myself.

Just like a guy said...

Well get back to me in five hundred years.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Nice to see you have such trust in my intellectual prowess.

Didn’t the Rebbe himself advocate such an approach?

Anarchist Chossid said...

The Rebbe said that a chossid needs to know why his Rebbe is right. I am probably misinterpreting here.

By the way, I disagree that we trust dayanim, because our mashpiim told us so. And the end of the day, it’s all up to our intellect. Not immediately, but initially.

Look, I have no problem with saying that the Rebbe is the Rebbe, and that Chassidus Chabad is the way to go. The best way to go. You know that. I have a problem with applying it to myself. For example, the Rebbe told people like me not to drop graduate school. Because they were able to make it into a keili for G-ttlichkeit. So, this is my intellectual problem.

My emotional problem is my baggage. Maybe that’s my only problem, and I am just teasing myself that it’s intellectual.

Nu, what’s new?

Anarchist Chossid said...

I mean, it's actually a little deeper.

If the Rebbe says the sky is yellow, and I see the sky is blue, what should I do? Should I, as a chossid, believe and act that the sky is yellow? Should I believe that the sky is blue but act as if it were yellow? Vice versa? Is the Rebbe really saying that the sky is yellow? Is he saying that the sky is yellow for people like me? Should I stop worrying about this and go back to learning D"M, Ha'amanas Elokus?

Just like a guy said...

Better yet, Ha'amanas Tzaddikim.

Anarchist Chossid said...

One comes from the other.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Interesting first answer to the question: http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=11184

Now, I cannot say that this is my answer. But it's one of the voices I am hearing.

Anarchist Chossid said...

Vs. this: "You are describing daas Elyon and daas Tachton.

The goal is not negate daas Tachton, but to integrate the two views."

Vs. Ein od milvadoi.

Just like a guy said...

This is why you should have gone to yeshiva when you had the chance.

Anarchist Chossid said...

I am surprised that a prophet like you doesn’t see what has really happened. Perhaps your channel is blocked tonight. It is mamosh a pity Hashem did not ask your opinion when orchestrating events of my life.

Just like a guy said...

Hmm, my sarcasm meter is detecting...

Anarchist Chossid said...

Goody gumdrops.